How to tell a student that s/he should enroll in a different program?

Question

Through the years I had several students that clearly were not fitted for computer science. Some of them ended up by dropping the program after a few years, some of them are still there struggling year after year.

I guess that one of the main problems is that they shouldn’t even have started the program, but due to unemployment of other programs, and the permanent media coverage on the lack of IT professionals, they end up enrolling.

Right now I am aware of 5-10 students that are on their 7th, 8th and further years on a 3 year program. And some of them are getting worse every year. So, they are basically spending their parents’ money and could be doing something more productive instead of just being there.

In some cases, it just makes me sad to see that they are absolutely unable to progress.

So, my question is: has any of you ever had to tell a student that s/he should probably enroll in a different program?

Note: I am aware of this question about CS class, my question is about the entire program.

Answer 1

Don't tell them anything. Ask pointed questions. Ask why they chose this course, or this major. Ask where they expect to be in a year or in five years. Make them talk through their plans. Let them find the gaps in it.

This past semester, I asked every single student that came in to my office to change majors to CS (or to IT) the same first question: "Why?" Some students had a great immediate answer, and I signed the form right away. With others, we had a 20 minute conversation. Some of them said they're in it for the money, and I would say things like "You'll make more money as a plumber, and you don't need college for that." "Oh, but my dad said-" "But what do you want?"

It's like helping them learn to debug. Let them come to the decision.

Answer 2

I wouldn't tell my students such thing because of two things.

One, I can never be sure enough. I don't see the whole picture. They are struggling in my courses, maybe many of my colleagues say they are struggling in their courses too, but they might turn out to be amazing web or UI designers later. Or maybe they have a God given talent in some obscure mathematical field that will be really valuable in the near future in robotics. I can never know.

The other thing is that saying something like this can do irreversible damage. A professor telling a student that they are not good enough for a given field is just brutal.

What are you trying to achieve? If you really want to help them, you need to get to know them very well, have a few beers together, have some long talks, find out why they even started CS, and very carefully help them realize they have other options. But to be honest, I'd rather spend the little free time I have with students that excel, and help them get even better.

So my short answer is: don't tell them. You can't know for sure, and it is really not you who should enlighten them. That is what friends and family are for. Help them if you can, and fail them in your course if they are below expectations.

(Now I'd give a very different answer if you were teaching future teachers. But since these folks are only hurting themselves on the long run if you are right...)

Answer 3

First and foremost, I applaud the love you have for your students. It is clear that you care for them deeply. I have no doubt that this desire to honor them as human beings works its way into your classroom and your private interactions with the students, and I have no doubt that this makes a real difference in many of their lives.

Second, I am unfamiliar with the norms of your country, so I don't know how well my answer will translate to a new situation. Therefore, what I say might not be entirely correct in your circumstance¹.

However, if I could bear it at all, I would not tell them anything. I recognize that it can be heartbreaking to watch someone flounder year after year, but as a teacher, I do not feel that it is my place. I would, instead, speak to my administration. Are there guidance or scheduling counselors or deans? This kind of life advice should, ideally, come from someone above the level of a classroom teacher.

If I absolutely could not bear it, then the situation is somewhat different. This is now less than ideal! But if I simply could not hold it in, and I had the kind of warm relationship with the student where such an overture would be welcome, I might find a good moment and ask them about their goals, and ask them why they feel that they have been stuck in a 3-year program for 8 years. And then I would really listen closely to what they say next.

Depending on what they say, I might offer to help them in any way that I can, and I might further mention that there is no shame in switching majors. Their only obligation is to find something that they can be good at, could enjoy, and could help others with. If one program is not working, they should not allow the sunk cost fallacy to hold them in place, because they only get one life to live, and there is no reason to live it trapped in a box that they have made for themselves.

¹ You see? Here I pretend here that my wisdom would be sufficient in my own circumstance. I do not consider myself so wise, nor so lucky! This kind of situation is very hard, and you have my sympathies.

Answer 4

In the catalog at the liberal arts college at which I teach, we state that students must earn at least a B- in the following early courses to major in Computer Science:

• Java 1
• Java 2
• Discrete Mathematics 1
• Data Structures and Algorithms

Because the standards are explicit, it is clear that it's nothing personal if we say a student cannot continue in the major.

If the student really is interested in computer science, I tell her this might not be the right time in her life for her to do it (not that she's incapable of ever doing it) and advise her on retaking courses, with any appropriate accommodations. I might also advise her on related majors in which she might be more successful.

We have no way of stopping a student from continuing to take CS courses (as long as she has passed the prerequisites), but the policy sends a strong message that they should choose a different major.

Answer 5

To basically repeat some of what others said, hopefully shorter:

Don't you dare tell them what they should do. Like who to marry, that is their choice. Just tell them what you do know: "These are the skills that I find most successful people in this field have..." "Here is what I'm seeing when I assess your current skills..." Leave it up to them to decide how they, once informed, want to handle incongruities.

Answer 6

I kind of like this question because I have faced this situation many times, and I have in fact, told my students, that yes, they should change their specialisation or at least pursue something else.

Most of the time, the students hate me for saying that. Some have accused me of interfering with their lives. Others, think I am overstepping my boundaries. However, as is always the case, some of them are happy to sit and discuss why I said that. These sessions can go on for long hours, but eventually, we are able to figure out what is right for them.

For instance, I had this student who was just terrible at programming. If not for decent repetition and memory, the student would have failed the class. I found out that the student had extraordinary artistic skills. I was able to sit and map out a career path which used these skills. Now the student is working hard refocusing career goals, away from computer science. Like this, there have been many cases where I was able to realign people towards their goals.

All said and done, I tell students that they are bad at this (by providing historical data for the same) but I also tell them what they should be doing instead. This seems to work. Over the years, I have learnt that some students are more open to such suggestions than others, and have gotten good at identifying such students.

So, the process works something like this.

• identify those who totally should not be in CS
• find out what else they could be doing.
• are they open to suggestions?
• if yes, go ahead and tell them. If no, well, control the urge to tell them, and may be just stay away from them :)

Answer 7

I used to work at a community college in the US, where students often hung around for years in the CS program. I agree that it is a terrible outcome, resulting in lost wages and lost potential.

However, when I looked more closely at these students, I'm not sure the problem was that the students couldn't learn CS. It seemed that the problem was that they weren't applying themselves in class for a variety of reasons---sometimes, but not always, for highly sympathetic reasons, such as competing family obligations or need to work. Other reasons included the lack of places to study on campus coupled with a poor study environment at home, or not knowing anyone in the program and becoming demotivated socially. Sometimes, I think the problem was that the teaching in their classes was very poor, and students chose to drop the class and re-try rather than get a poor grade.

Will the students that you advise really do better in another program? CS is a great area, with many job opportunities, even if students join the workforce with just a few CS classes. Perhaps the answer is to reflect on issues within your CS degree program and consider how you can get students to stay on campus, focus on work, and get help when they need it. Social motivation will likely be a large factor. Tutoring strategies like PLTL can address the academic needs while also forming social bonds between students.

Best of luck!

Answer 8

Never tell a student he or she should think about a different major unless they ask you. When I was junior high one of my teachers told my parents that "college isn't for everyone", hinting at the idea that I wouldn't make it to college. My parents never told me this until after I graduated from college with a Software Engineering degree.

Sometimes students choose majors for the wrong reasons. Ask them what made them want to take this major? Do you enjoy programming? What classes do you like currently? If they just flat out dislike all their classes then perhaps suggest they see a counselor or go to a community college. Community collage gave me the time to take various classes that interest me without paying the university price. Once I figured out what exactly I wanted to study, I transferred to a university. It saved me money and time in the long run. I know of students who graduated with their degree and hate it... That would be the worst outcome of all.

The best thing you can do is help point them in direction of something that interests them. Perhaps the student has the worst teachers for those classes and introducing them to one of your favorite professors can help. Show them the best side of computer science at your university and if they still dislike it then perhaps the answer is clear and they should switch to degree that they're actually interested in.

Answer 9

In almost all cases I've come across, these are students who don't enjoy what they're doing in the program at all. I try to point out that if there isn't something they enjoy about the process, they won't want to do it as a career no matter how good they get at it. That's usually enough of a wake-up call.

(Note: if they do enjoy what they're doing even though they're doing it very badly, the early courses probably aren't challenging enough to test them appropriately.)

When the students are older (30's and 40's) they usually have the wisdom to see this for themselves, but young students often do things without stopping to consider why. Figure out what they want to do, what they enjoy doing, and guide them in that direction.